bitsandspurs

I think the maker who builds good using gear and does it efficiently can make fairly good money at this. At least I know a few who are. There is a good market for this type of work. The problem I see right now is for the makers doing high end work. I am blown away by how fast and how high the bar has been raised at the level of work being turned out by some makers. Look at what has been on this site in just the last several weeks. Larry Fuegen, George Blackwood, Jerry Falkner, Mark Stewart, Mike Anders, Doc MIke, and H. M. Wells (if I left anyone out here I apologize) have all put pictures on here of pieces that were incredible. All functional, but at the same type they are works of art. And that is where those pieces belong; in the art world. And for the makers who are doing this level of work to survive they have to be able to price their pieces accordingly. There are quite a few makers who who can build a pair of spurs or a bit in a day or a day and a half and get $4oo-600 for them. A few even more than that. Pretty good wages. There is a good market for that type of work. But when you get in to the higher end work there are only a small group of buyers right now. I think that could be changed for the better but it's going to be up to us to make it happen. The TCAA has sure helped to get the ball started to rolling. Now if we can just keep improving on what has been started.

Two things I compare our business to are the horsemanship clinic industry and the PBR. I was first around Ray Hunt in 1979. I can guarantee you he and the Dorrance brothers had no idea what they were getting started. But they got it started and it took off like an avalanche.
The PBR was started in 1992 by twenty bull riders who each put up $1000. These twenty guys are all very wealthy today. But I'm pretty sure when they started the PBR they didn't realize how quick it was going to turn into a really good deal.
The reason I bring this up is I don't see why we can't have the same success story happen in our business. There are plenty of wealthy people in this country who want to experience the Western lifestyle that most of us grew up around and probably take for granted. I think these are the folks who can become a big part our customer base. They collect western art, use horses for recreation, and buy up the ranch land that is being subdivided across the West. We just need to make them aware of what we are doing and create interest. I think it could take off like a wildfire.

Now I'm not trying to do away with building affordable gear for cowboys. But for the makers who are doing high end work, or for ones like my self who aspire to it's going to take a wealthier customer base to make the deal work. A number of my friends who are builders want to build only for cowboys. And that is great. I really respect them for that because they want to look out for the cowboy. But here is how I look at it. Most any cowboy or horseman who is turning out nice horses isn't aspiring to sell those horses to another cowboy. They want to sell to someone who can afford to pay for all the time that has been invested in that horse. I am approaching this business the same way. I want to get as good as I can and at some point that means most of my work will no longer be affordable to the cowboy. But there will be another maker coming along to take my place so the cowboy will still be taken care of. I apologize for rambling on but this is a very important subject to me. I'm tired of being broke and I firmly believe we have a golden opportunity here. But we need to strike while the iron is hot. I look forward to hearing other's thoughts and ideas on this.

Best wishes to all,
Stewart

Stewart I think you are on the right track in your thinking. EXPOSURE EXPOSURE EXPOSURE. Soon word of mouth will take a hold. I personaly am in the sure enough baby steps in trying to break in to the spur making world . I still wrestle with myself about puttin something on e-bay from what ive seen some real good work has gone far to cheap, but its a place to start. You high end makers do have an uphill battle,not many people can afford to pay what your work is really worth. The quality of work being turned out today is amazing and the number of makers that can do it.I guess we all have to find our own little niche in this deal .

This is all really good stuff BUT, I have been in the business of gear making now for 18 years and one thing I have learned is YOU HAVE TO PAY YOUR DUES. Now let me explain, there are a lot of good makers out there that will never command the high prices that they deserve like other makers have. Some may not agree but that is just the way it is if you want proof look at country singers there are probably lots of singers out there that can sing just as good as George Straight but will never be in the right place at the right time and not get discovered by the right people. Not just right place at the right time always works but I think your name, who you know, and how much you are in the public eye is what will help make you. Now back to paying dues, I believe I make a decent product and I have been on ebay now for the last 4 months and some of my stuff has sold good and some hasn't. One thing I have learned in the past 4 months is you never know who's going to be on there so you better be on there all the time whether its a nice pair of spurs or just a little buckle set. Now I have let some pretty nice stuff go cheep but I have already seen it come back to me to benefit me, so you will continue to see my work there. Ebay may not all ways be good, but all exposure is. I am just about done just one more thing, Billy Klapper did not get to where he is today by being a great maker I am sure in the early days he practically gave stuff away, know why is he so collectable? number 1 he has shown the public that he will stay around and be there and stand behind his work and he met up with the right people at the right time. Now I know there are more reasons than that but I believe that's a big one. I do believe we are in a special time, with the internet we can do things a lot faster that the old makers spent years doing and that is getting out there and pay your dues. I hope I have contributed some here just remember if have said anything wrong, what do I know I'm just a bit & spur maker. Mike Anders

Mike,
You just hit the nail on the head. We are all just bit and spur makers. But if some of us can step beyond that and become entrepreneurs we have a good chance of revolutionizing this business and making it better. I'm talking about promoting our craft as a whole and creating a much larger and more diverse customer base than we currently have. And that will benefit every maker out there.
My Dad was one of the best cowmen I was ever around. I grew up in the 1960s-70s. Most all of the ranchers I grew up around approached their business with this attitude--this is the way Dad and Grandad did it so this is the way we will do it. My Dad was completely opposite. He got up every day trying to figure out what he could do to make his operation more efficient and more profitable. Now don't think he didn't make a few mistakes along the way but he was quick to see when he had made one and make whatever changes needed making. And because of his approach I watched him make money in tough years when many in the cattle business were losing money. And I watched him make a killing in the good years. I mentioned the PBR in my first post. Look what they have done with bull riding. Those original guys had the foresight and the gumption to step out and try something different. They took what was just a rodeo event and are well on their way to turning it into a mainstream sport.
I am optimistic we could do something similar with this business. Now I realize some of you are happy just the way it is and that is fine. But I choose to look at this business not as it is but as what I think it can be. And I'm like Mike. If I said anything wrong well what do I know. I'm just a spur maker.

Stewart

Stewart I am with ya buddy, I think, and this might piss some off but one big problem with our craft is the public (not all but most) not knowing the difference in a buckle that has 15 min. worth of wheat cuts and a buckle with hand cut sterling silver scrolls with 2hr. of engraving. I was blown away the last few week when I put just that on ebay and the wheat leafs were bringing what the scrolls were. So what are they going to get? you guessed it. Now I still think you can turn the bar up no matter what engraving you do and I do believe that if the bar keeps getting turned higher by all makers and educating there public maybe just maybe more of the public will understand just what some of us do day after day to achieve what we do. But in a nut shell, Stewart you are using the PBR well they came together and showed it's fun to pay to see just bull riding well a big part of us need to come together and show, this is why our work cost more (and I know the TCA is on the front lines) than there work and I think it starts with Ebay, trade shows, advertising, word of mouth and putting your pieces in the right hands.

I’m certainly not a famous spur maker even though I have been making bit and spurs since the 1970’s, I may have some insight into the successes of others.

In the case of Billy Klapper being in the right place at the right time, did have a great deal to do with his ability to charge more for a pair of using spurs than any one else, maybe in the whole world. Billy used his association with the artistic and creative Adolph Bayers so effectively, it looks as though Klapper’s bit and spurs will bring as much or more than Bayers’. And don’t kid your self, Billy never had to sell cheaper or practically give anything away. One thing for sure, we spur makers owe Klapper when it comes to getting big bucks, Klapper has made it so you can ask $600 to thousands for a pair and never see the customer flinch, they now expect it.


One of the most important things that happened to Klapper was being touted by National Cutting Horse Association Riders Hall of Fame member, Bill Freeman in his book “Cutting: Training the Horse and Rider” and if you know anything about Freeman you will understand why his praise of Klapper’s work carried so much clout. Plus there is Lee Lyles, if you have been to the World Quarter Horse Show you’ll know who I’m talking about, he promotes Klapper to no end and knows every high roller in the Quarter Horse industry, plus hunter jumper, polo and dressage. The horse industry is much like golf, basketball or any other sport in that people want to use and wear what the winners’ do; after all emulating what winners do to succeed, is the smart thing to do and what the whole post is about.

A friend of mine related a story about Buster Welch that is quite apropos in this topic: Buster was showing a horse, that to say the least was a little spooked by the sound of the rowels on his spurs, so Buster wrapped some white medical tape around them to keep them quite. He never thought anything about it until the next cutting, when much to his surprise; many of the cutters had white tape wrapped around the rowels on their spurs. And that is why Tiger Woods, Dan Mortensen, Bobby Hull, or any top athlete is paid by sporting good manufactures promote their products.

In closing I would like to include some advice the Adolph Bayers imparted to Jerry Cates: “Do the best you can do but leave a handmade look to everything you make.”

Well here are my two cents for what it is worth. Three years ago i did not know any of you guys were out there and i have been building spurs since the early 90's. The only avenue i knew was out there was wholesale market because that was all i knew from the family business. I have always wanted to do nicer and higer end things but there was not really an avenue to my knowledge for that. What i see as the problem is the buyers are not educated because they get a sales pitch instead of knowlege ie: These spurs are 3000 and these are 300 but they are the same spur with the same BAYERS pattern on them? Since i have been introduced to all of the makers on this site and the ones that i have met in the last few years it makes me want to put the control back into our hands "The Makers " the ones that should have the control on this. I truely belive that if you make better stuff the chips will fall where they may and the marketing aspect will not really be necessitated. I was inspired after the tca conference/lecture on marketing to go ahead and submit my peice for the high noon auction and hopefully it will do well and i will not loose my butt but that is the chance that we or i have to take to get my work in front of the right people at the right time to continue to subject myself to a higher level of performance which is what i think we are really all talking about or at least should be. I truely believe if we all get better it will all take care of itself. The conference that Larry Feugen got started is hopefully going to put us all at a place where we can challenge and push each other as builers and artists and we all WIN at the end of the day.
George( hope i dont offend anyone with this just saying what i feel)

One other thing that I'm pretty sure helped Billy Klapper and has helped the collectable market grow are the Bayers books that J Martin Basinger put together. J Martin has been promoting this craft for a long time. I hope he gets recognition one of these days for all he has done.
Mike and George, you guys are right on. We need to start educating our customers. My experience is a lot of them readily see the difference between good and bad metal work. But many of them can't differentiate between good and not so good engraving and silver work. It falls on us to try and help them see the difference.
Perry Pritchard called me today and he had one of the best ideas I have heard. We need to figure out how to get some coverage in Cowboys and Indians Magazine. Western horseman has run some good articles on makers over the past several years and I am sure it is helping. But Cowboys and Indians hits a different demographic --- wealthy folks who like the Western lifestyle. True West might be another good one. I wouldn't have a clue how we could approach this, but it is sure something to be studying on.

Stewart

Maybe they could do a story on the conference and about the groth of high end stuff that is being made.
George
P.S. Mybe Peg could help

This is all good insight and I personally think everyone is on the right thinking mode on this particular situation. I have seen and experienced most of what everyone else has. I classify myself as a part time maker. I mainly do this stuff because I enjoy doing it. I have limited time to promote myself because of other obligations, ie. going to shows and such. I have done a few, back in the late 90's. I have had some nice pieces, all sterling mounted and sparkling like a diamond in a goats ass, sitting next to a piece that was mounted with the usual "stars and bars". 9 out of 10 times, people would push aside the nice pieces to pick up the stars and bars spurs. At the time I didnt understand that. I have realized it was due to lack of education on their part. I havent done a show in years and I am sure that situation has changed with the times. Now to Ebay. I have used Ebay in the past and still do mainly because its convient for a person that has limited tools and time for self promotion like myself. I have done good and I have also took a diddling on there. It is a good world wide marketing tool, but what we need to realize is that Ebay is what I call a whores market. It is an auction and folks will try and get stuff as cheap as they can, and I dont blame them. It is also real easy to over build pieces for Ebay. But all in all its a good place to start and a good advertising tool. I would recomend, and am going to try this and see how it works out. Instead of putting stuff on the site and having them nickel and dime the stuff to death for a week on an auction format, I am going to start setting a livable honest price, take it or leave it, and see what happens. In my thinking we need to set an individual standard and keep to it on the prices we are getting whether its using type gear or the upper end pieces, and Ebay and other sites would be a place to start. I guess what I am saying is, that it hurts all of us when our stuff doesnt sell for what we need it to, and we need somehow to school on the buying public on what is envolved in producing this gear, and one way to do that is to set the price and let em have it. Not all auction formats are like the internet auctions. High Noon and The Cody Old West Auction are pretty safe places to market and a person wouldnt have to really worry about taking too much less than what they need, cause they have the demographics in the form of high end buyers, that are willing to pay the price. I guess this isnt much insight from a part time low key maker like myself, but its a few things I have experienced. I would give my left one to attend the conference next month with you guys, but I will not be able to attend. It sounds like a real good deal. Thanks for taking the time to read this.......Regards to all, H.M. Wells

The only thing I disagree with in part is about educating the end buyer. The reason people pushed aside a really fine pair of spurs for the stars and bars is because of the sheep mentality of the customer. They are looking for a look, a look they saw in the winners circle. A customer of mine has a large collection of contemporary spurs, and when a none horse person see them they pick out the spurs like H.M. Wells makes because they see the artistry first. If it is a cutter, reiner or some other horse show competitor looks at them,they push the really good stuff aside and go for what the top hand in their chosen event is wearing, yes the Klapper’s. So unless you are selling to a collector, education just does not work but have the World Horse Champion cutter wear your spurs and you can ask any price you want.

If some one does come up with an effective way to create a demand they can write their own ticket and forming an association just might be the way to do it, like the TCAA has. Getting your bits and spurs accepted in the major high roller auctions like High Noon and Cody west are certainly great way to generate demand also, Bill Adamson’s spurs have done quite well in these venues. Just remember like in the art world, some really great art never make it and some really crappy art does, just don’t give up.

For all the talented and creative craftsmen here, if your goal is to make the finest and most artistic spurs you can, you are already a success in my book.

i've built 580 pair over the last 13 years. all but one pair could stand up to everyday use and not lose much of their intended appearance. (regardless of the customer, collector or cowboy) i have taken the same engraving class most of you have attended. i can appreciate the talent and time involved in that type of silver work, yet I choose to continue to build traditional texas style gear. i collect burns, alward, cates and spraberry,and i'll give quite a bit of money for something i like. I won't spend penny on something i don't, regardless of the time involved in making it.
my question is, how does my personal preference make me (or the public) uneducated?

mike richardson

All I have to say on the subject is that I feel the same as Mike Richardson.

What I was actually refering to was there is a lot of people out there that could be potential customers for all of us, that really dont know or have never thought about the difference between hand made and feed store tack type gear. I used to see this a lot back when I was building saddles. If I owe an apology for my poor choice of wording please accept. H.

i wasn't just referring to just your post H.M. Mike Anders said the same thing about wheat stalk versus scroll work. it was preference that drove that price, not ignorance. i do agree with having to educate the difference between feed store gear and handmade. that was the battle 13 years ago. we also built them for 75.00- 150.00 a pair, and 20.00 partrades made it hard for anyone to give a new guy a chance. cates were somewhere around 400.00 and if you could someday be a 250.00 spurmaker you were really hitting a homerun. there were no schools and noone to help a new guy. you threw away lots of junk, earned some respect and eventually got a tip or two thrown your way.
these days you guys are developing a different style, and the public should be educated that sterling scrollwork eats up lots of time and sterling doesn't come cheap. you "highend" guys also must realize that back when i started, steer heads, and flowers, bronc riders and scenes were just as unique . most customers only wanted their intials on the band, because that said "custom". kevin burns work was "cutting edge" , and they didn't understand the extra time it took to build something with an artistic flair to it. anytime you went out on a limb, you generally didn't get monetarily compensated for it. time has progressed and attitudes have changed. things are better for me and my chosen style, and i am fortunate to be able to finally make descent money when you figure things by the hour. this very topic is one of the reasons i stick to the style i build. i've went through the growing pains, built a business based on my style, and i'm still having a great time, and making money to boot.

i didn't mean to steal this post, but i just couldn't let some of the posts go without commentary. After all we are in the same boat, finding a customer base and making it pay.