I have read some replies on the subject of flat graver heel angles and I feel that since I have just worked 24 hours straight in this shop I have earned the right (just kidding about the right) to throw in my 2 cents before I get in my truck and drive 55 miles to the house to then jump in the car and take my boy to his first hockey game. That will make for good watching when he gets older. Here goes. My graver heel angle is determined by the obsticals that I must engrave around. I like cutting with a 20 degree heel but I find that my graver is always bumping into something that is soldered onto the piece I am engraving. I have about 4 different heel angles on my bench by the block to use. But It seems that I use the 30 degree heel the most. It seems to clear most things. Someone could write a small book on this subject but it won't be me. If I can help anyone on this subject send me your phone # and I will Skype you. It seems like there are so many other factors that affect how a graver cuts other than heel angles. I would be interested in seeing Greg's graver angles. Something tells me that he can engrave with a lot of different angles. One last request. You guys get off of your @ss and submit some pics. I love looking at them. Someday I will take the time to learn how to get pics on this forum. Although it is not much to see. Just kidding, I did not mean your @ss, I meant your cameras. I am tired and going home. Will be back on Monday.